I think I embarrassed myself when you were introducing the clip at the 10a this weekend... You introduced the lead singer of the greatest rock band of all time and I just knew you were talking about Bono. I jumped out of my seat with both hands in the air and yelled "YES!" I guess I got a lot of strange looks, but that might have been mostly from my family. :) That clip was really great. It got me even more fired up... I can't wait to see how God will have me help!
It's been amazing to watch Bono's spiritual growth over the years. He's so much more outspoken about his faith now more than ever before. How so very convenient for us. Can not wait to see what God does next weekend...super excited.
while it excites me that someone in such an amplified position as Bono, with his persuasive voice calling to the youth, is quoting scripture, it simultaneously concerns me that we, as a culture, are digesting the "Gospel of Bono". unfortunately, this man says a lot of varied things dependent upon who is present, and i think it is a poor demonstration of his true character.
we seem to take his example that if we do good things, and are charitable, we never have to call upon the name of Christ publically, or mention HIm for that matter. we can just give a vague analogy to God or faith, and that will be sufficient...i hate to say it, but Bono is not an example of someone i would like to emulate. i'm not saying he's not making progress,or being used by the Lord, but rather that on the whole, i feel it is a wise decision to label his palatable form of Christianity as merely, the "Gospel of Bono".
he has, however, said some lovely things. i have and will always be an enormous fan of U2, and am grateful for the way they present challenging prose about faith. but then there's this:
"The trick in the next few years will be not to decry the religious instinct, but to accept that this is a hugely important part of people's lives. And at the same time to be very wary of people who believe that theirs is the only way. Unilateralism before God is dangerous."---Bono and i find comments like this perpetually intriguing, didn't he just then denounce the basic tenants of Christianity and Christ HImself in this sentence?
i will admit that an interview a year later showed him responding to questions with answers like, "I 'effen love Jesus, man". he spoke of Him as prophet and why it's Tru Doctrine...however unfortunate his choice of words were.
i think it just concerns me that we want a replacement ideology of grooviness. it's rather scandelous the way we go to rock concerts and almost worship-we want someone cooler than Jesus, and i guess, Bono is that dude for many...it's just as dangerous as those he speaks of when he says, "And, you know, I do have faith, and I'm worried about even the subject because of the sort of fanaticism that is the next-door neighbor of faith."
fanaticism hmmm? interesting. "one of these things is not like the other..."
one more thing:jodi mentioned that it's "convenient" for us, and whil i understand the original intention of her words, i find it a perfect example-it's almost more 'convenient' theology...too palatable for me. one where one's lifestyle doesn't need altered too much. :) yuck.
I have to admit that I'm not one to keep up with current events, celebrities, etc. Therefore, I know nothing about the fruit in Bono's life. However, I did see this- he spoke God's Word with a boldness and passion that I'm jealous for....and we know that His Word does not return void. The concert clip reminds me that we are called to Go into the whole WORLD, not just the whole church.....
I am grateful for the way the Lord is raising up voices in the media- this territory must be reclaimed! Music, movies, etc, have been a breeding ground for evil long enough....
jillian said … “this man says a lot of varied things dependent upon who is present.” That sounds like me, unfortunately.
I really liked the statement Bono made that “love your neighbor” was a commandment not just good advice, and his passion for bringing the Kingdom ON EARTH as it is in Heaven.
As to Bono’s other theological remarks - the “Gospel of Bono” - I can’t really say much. It does seem to me, however, that Bono’s actions have demonstrated “love your neighbor” better than what a lot of the Church has been doing these days.
And in the parable about separating the “sheep” from the “goats” the separation was based on what the people had done, not on what they believed. (Matthew 25)
But I suppose it would be wise to appreciate Bono's example and music, and get one's theology elsewhere.
We probably need to cut Bono a break. Keep in mind he is from Ireland and there is still a brew of fanaticism over there that can bubble up at any time. For that reason he does have to be cautious when speaking, not to perpetuate groovieness, but rather to prevent one of his countrymen from hearing what he says, twisting it around and then using it as a reason to make a pipe bomb.
It was great to that video again, even for the umpteenth time.
What Bono said at the end - especially the last two lines - also really impressed me, but I forgot to mention it previously:
“Our purpose is to bring heaven to earth, in the micro as well as the macro.
The world is not a happy place for most people who are living in it.
As you grow up, you think, 'Well, that’s just the way of the world.'
Well, yes it is, that is the way of the world, but it not the way the world has to be. And if that *is* the way of the world, we have to *overthrow* the way of the world.
We mus’nt describe this stuff as an obligation, as a duty.
i feel i should make a concession, based on the beauty of grace...
it is possible, that Bono has come to a point in life where he isn't willing to comprimise for his Faith,and is being more honest in the video than ever. i think i need to have the grace to allow him to have changed his mind, and the grace to pray that as he moves forward he is increasingly vocal about the Truth.
the video is nice, and i noted the second time, that he seems older, possibly wiser and heaps less intoxicated.
I find it fantastic that God uses Bono's popularity and notoriety to start conversations for His name's sake! I think that's just one more example of God using anyone and everyone to do His work here on earth. A lot of people will listen to U2, and find God somewhere in those lyrics. It actually has been helpful to me in times where I felt far from God... I don't think anyone would argue that Bono should be elevated to a God-like status... not even Bono himself-- but rather that Bono will speak God's name to a lot of people who would otherwise not be listening...
As you read this realize I am trying to help you gain an understanding on something that is understood by few in the Church world. I happen to have lived long enough and to have been in the right situations that I have something to add to this discussion that could help immensly in this conversation.
Appreciate your "concern" (you use the word 'concern' a lot to be so young, btw) for Bono's spiritual condition and his influence over so many worldwide.
Here is what very few believers in the Church world don't get at all about artists in general - especially those with significant visibility. Lyricists such as Bono and Dylan for two use words in a very different way than about any on Planet Earth and certainly than nearly all in the Church as we know it.
Guaranteed, neither Bono nor Dylan will ever allow themselves to be boxed into a neat little theological package - something we that nearly all verbally skilled believers so love to do in the U.S. This desire to box someone like these two into a category beyond them simply saying "I love Jesus" allows the Church at large to write them off as "Well you know how those people are..." blah blah. RollingStone magazine has asked Dylan dozens of times like a parrott if he is "born again." Each time he answers their question with a question (gee, who else did that? Starts with a "J" - was important in the gospels... wore a robe, beard...). It is the religious system that insists on categorizing people - for this reason - to exclude. Never to include. When it became clear that Jesus wasn't in the "club" with the right answers, he walked away and the haunting line was, "From that moment they began to plan as to how they would kill Jesus..." You've read it.
Dylan came to Jesus at the first Vineyard in L.A. I was there and in the thick of things. He is still a 100% committed believer no matter what the Hasidics try to say. But Dylans answers to straightforward questions are answered with "Listen to the third song on my Saved album" which is "I'm saved by the blood of the Lamb..." Pretty clear, no!?
Bono is cut from the same cloth.
We aren't the Church police. Jesus didn't call us - any of us - at any time to fulfill that role. If we want to sit around Starbucks and chat about this or that and wonder, that's fine and dandy. But let's leave our ponderings there - at Starbucks and not in the open venue for other believers to read and possibly to be influenced by. This forum is completly inappropriate.
If one cannot see God's hand upon both Bono and Dylan - well they need another cup of coffee and listen so Jesus some more. They are prophetic voices of this generation far more profoundly than anyone whose books, recordings or TV appearances are coming out under the rubric of "Christian" etc. Why is this not surprising? God always comes out of left field. For millenia the "people of God" have missed God when he came in their generation with a message because they were watching the pot boil... All the while he was hanging out in the "shitake" filled stable where no one was looking. It is a slam dunk guarantee - this generation of the formal Church will / is missing God once again. Human nature has a high need to categorize any and all. When people don't want to play that game, "concern" turns to intolerance, and down the spiral goes.
Our calling - very simple. That is the beauty of VCC. KISS (not the band) - "Keep It Simple Stupid!" You've heard it at many weddings, "Love believes the best, love hopes the best..."
Think of the Church that is just around the corner - known as a place that is no longer "concerned" about this person or that person but is convinced that God's Spirit is so powerful that when we gather after a week of being scattering in our various walks of life - we have "loved the daylights" out of our city in practical ways. Such energized people gathered together will bring with them God's Spirit in an amazing way. Anyone present will indeed change... whether it is on week on or week two or week three. "We all gonna change - to be like Jesus!"
It will be better than a U2 concert - no tickets necessary.
Thank you for showing Bono's video citing the Bible at the celebration. It's an affirmation that Jesus followers are not ignorant, care about the poor and really do something wherever they are, including Bono with his ONE movement, and his fight over extreme poverty. He has a dark side just like any of us, but by worshiping Jesus and receiving Jesus as a savior, the word Saint is granted to us. Glory to Jesus!
stelfox- your response ignores what i have written, in particular the quotes of the gentleman we are discussing, as well as the subsequent admissions of grace written by myself. this forum is certainly appropriate to bring counterpoints, and i am smitten that you would assume otherwise. especially having written extensively in such a manner. i am actually overwhelmed in general that you assume many things---
my father, as well as myself was/are artists. he actually had the privilege of playing with dylan and many others in the spotlight. i am awre of their commentary and beliefs... heck, dave himself actually played drums at some point with my pop, and i would never categorize either of them. if there is anything i do not do, it is "box someone in" whereas i have been subject to such myself. nor am i young-i seen multitudes of ACTS miracles through prayer, the presence of God has aged me rapidly---
i suggest you reread my posts, and the content therein thoroughly. i merely offered an alternate perspective, while you seem to dismiss me, and then tell me you love me. one of these things is not like the other.
also, your implication that i need to listen to Jesus more is absurd, as is the statement that others who are apparently vulnerable may be 'influenced' in such a forum...yeah, they might be. are you perchance implying the Body has no discernment? cannot decide for themselves? i'm fairly certain that as the Living Bride of Christ, we are all capable of reading and deciding what is truth. or are you questioning our simple ability to choose as even we accepted the Truth of Christ Himself? are we little children?
see...it totally sucks when someone misses the point and terrorizes your words, and has the audacity to refer to it as "love", doesn't it?
How can you not like a guy that quotes Psalm 116 in one of the biggest rock tours of all times?
I think I embarrassed myself when you were introducing the clip at the 10a this weekend... You introduced the lead singer of the greatest rock band of all time and I just knew you were talking about Bono. I jumped out of my seat with both hands in the air and yelled "YES!" I guess I got a lot of strange looks, but that might have been mostly from my family. :) That clip was really great. It got me even more fired up... I can't wait to see how God will have me help!
ReplyDeleteIt's been amazing to watch Bono's spiritual growth over the years. He's so much more outspoken about his faith now more than ever before. How so very convenient for us. Can not wait to see what God does next weekend...super excited.
ReplyDeletewhile it excites me that someone in such an amplified position as Bono, with his persuasive voice calling to the youth, is quoting scripture, it simultaneously concerns me that we, as a culture, are digesting the "Gospel of Bono". unfortunately, this man says a lot of varied things dependent upon who is present, and i think it is a poor demonstration of his true character.
ReplyDeletewe seem to take his example that if we do good things, and are charitable, we never have to call upon the name of Christ publically, or mention HIm for that matter. we can just give a vague analogy to God or faith, and that will be sufficient...i hate to say it, but Bono is not an example of someone i would like to emulate. i'm not saying he's not making progress,or being used by the Lord, but rather that on the whole, i feel it is a wise decision to label his palatable form of Christianity as merely, the "Gospel of Bono".
he has, however, said some lovely things. i have and will always be an enormous fan of U2, and am grateful for the way they present challenging prose about faith. but then there's this:
"The trick in the next few years will be not to decry the religious instinct, but to accept that this is a hugely important part of people's lives. And at the same time to be very wary of people who believe that theirs is the only way. Unilateralism before God is dangerous."---Bono
and i find comments like this perpetually intriguing, didn't he just then denounce the basic tenants of Christianity and Christ HImself in this sentence?
i will admit that an interview a year later showed him responding to questions with answers like, "I 'effen love Jesus, man". he spoke of Him as prophet and why it's Tru Doctrine...however unfortunate his choice of words were.
i think it just concerns me that we want a replacement ideology of grooviness. it's rather scandelous the way we go to rock concerts and almost worship-we want someone cooler than Jesus, and i guess, Bono is that dude for many...it's just as dangerous as those he speaks of when he says,
"And, you know, I do have faith, and I'm worried about even the subject because of the sort of fanaticism that is the next-door neighbor of faith."
fanaticism hmmm? interesting. "one of these things is not like the other..."
one more thing:jodi mentioned that it's "convenient" for us, and whil i understand the original intention of her words, i find it a perfect example-it's almost more 'convenient' theology...too palatable for me. one where one's lifestyle doesn't need altered too much. :)
ReplyDeleteyuck.
I have to admit that I'm not one to keep up with current events, celebrities, etc. Therefore, I know nothing about the fruit in Bono's life. However, I did see this- he spoke God's Word with a boldness and passion that I'm jealous for....and we know that His Word does not return void. The concert clip reminds me that we are called to Go into the whole WORLD, not just the whole church.....
ReplyDeleteI am grateful for the way the Lord is raising up voices in the media- this territory must be reclaimed! Music, movies, etc, have been a breeding ground for evil long enough....
Oh, I forgot to mention this- I think Bono's pretty cool too...
ReplyDeletejillian said … “this man says a lot of varied things dependent upon who is present.” That sounds like me, unfortunately.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the statement Bono made that “love your neighbor” was a commandment not just good advice, and his passion for bringing the Kingdom ON EARTH as it is in Heaven.
As to Bono’s other theological remarks - the “Gospel of Bono” - I can’t really say much. It does seem to me, however, that Bono’s actions have demonstrated “love your neighbor” better than what a lot of the Church has been doing these days.
And in the parable about separating the “sheep” from the “goats” the separation was based on what the people had done, not on what they believed. (Matthew 25)
But I suppose it would be wise to appreciate Bono's example and music, and get one's theology elsewhere.
“Gospel of Bono”
ReplyDeleteWe probably need to cut Bono a break. Keep in mind he is from Ireland and there is still a brew of fanaticism over there that can bubble up at any time. For that reason he does have to be cautious when speaking, not to perpetuate groovieness, but rather to prevent one of his countrymen from hearing what he says, twisting it around and then using it as a reason to make a pipe bomb.
we posted the bono clip used this past weekend on our homepage.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.vineyardcincinnati.com/index_vid.php
enjoy.
Thank you, thank you, Brad!!
ReplyDeleteIt was great to that video again, even for the umpteenth time.
What Bono said at the end - especially the last two lines - also really impressed me, but I forgot to mention it previously:
“Our purpose is to bring heaven to earth, in the micro as well as the macro.
The world is not a happy place for most people who are living in it.
As you grow up, you think, 'Well, that’s just the way of the world.'
Well, yes it is, that is the way of the world, but it not the way the world has to be. And if that *is* the way of the world, we have to *overthrow* the way of the world.
We mus’nt describe this stuff as an obligation, as a duty.
It’s really an opportunity – and an adventure. “
i feel i should make a concession, based on the beauty of grace...
ReplyDeleteit is possible, that Bono has come to a point in life where he isn't willing to comprimise for his Faith,and is being more honest in the video than ever. i think i need to have the grace to allow him to have changed his mind, and the grace to pray that as he moves forward he is increasingly vocal about the Truth.
the video is nice, and i noted the second time, that he seems older, possibly wiser and heaps less intoxicated.
fair enough.
humbly,
jillian edington
I find it fantastic that God uses Bono's popularity and notoriety to start conversations for His name's sake! I think that's just one more example of God using anyone and everyone to do His work here on earth. A lot of people will listen to U2, and find God somewhere in those lyrics. It actually has been helpful to me in times where I felt far from God...
ReplyDeleteI don't think anyone would argue that Bono should be elevated to a God-like status... not even Bono himself-- but rather that Bono will speak God's name to a lot of people who would otherwise not be listening...
To jillian,
ReplyDeleteAs you read this realize I am trying to help you gain an understanding on something that is understood by few in the Church world. I happen to have lived long enough and to have been in the right situations that I have something to add to this discussion that could help immensly in this conversation.
Appreciate your "concern" (you use the word 'concern' a lot to be so young, btw) for Bono's spiritual condition and his influence over so many worldwide.
Here is what very few believers in the Church world don't get at all about artists in general - especially those with significant visibility. Lyricists such as Bono and Dylan for two use words in a very different way than about any on Planet Earth and certainly than nearly all in the Church as we know it.
Guaranteed, neither Bono nor Dylan will ever allow themselves to be boxed into a neat little theological package - something we that nearly all verbally skilled believers so love to do in the U.S. This desire to box someone like these two into a category beyond them simply saying "I love Jesus" allows the Church at large to write them off as "Well you know how those people are..." blah blah. RollingStone magazine has asked Dylan dozens of times like a parrott if he is "born again." Each time he answers their question with a question (gee, who else did that? Starts with a "J" - was important in the gospels... wore a robe, beard...). It is the religious system that insists on categorizing people - for this reason - to exclude. Never to include. When it became clear that Jesus wasn't in the "club" with the right answers, he walked away and the haunting line was, "From that moment they began to plan as to how they would kill Jesus..." You've read it.
Dylan came to Jesus at the first Vineyard in L.A. I was there and in the thick of things. He is still a 100% committed believer no matter what the Hasidics try to say. But Dylans answers to straightforward questions are answered with "Listen to the third song on my Saved album" which is "I'm saved by the blood of the Lamb..." Pretty clear, no!?
Bono is cut from the same cloth.
We aren't the Church police. Jesus didn't call us - any of us - at any time to fulfill that role. If we want to sit around Starbucks and chat about this or that and wonder, that's fine and dandy. But let's leave our ponderings there - at Starbucks and not in the open venue for other believers to read and possibly to be influenced by. This forum is completly inappropriate.
If one cannot see God's hand upon both Bono and Dylan - well they need another cup of coffee and listen so Jesus some more. They are prophetic voices of this generation far more profoundly than anyone whose books, recordings or TV appearances are coming out under the rubric of "Christian" etc. Why is this not surprising? God always comes out of left field. For millenia the "people of God" have missed God when he came in their generation with a message because they were watching the pot boil... All the while he was hanging out in the "shitake" filled stable where no one was looking. It is a slam dunk guarantee - this generation of the formal Church will / is missing God once again. Human nature has a high need to categorize any and all. When people don't want to play that game, "concern" turns to intolerance, and down the spiral goes.
Our calling - very simple. That is the beauty of VCC. KISS (not the band) - "Keep It Simple Stupid!" You've heard it at many weddings, "Love believes the best, love hopes the best..."
Think of the Church that is just around the corner - known as a place that is no longer "concerned" about this person or that person but is convinced that God's Spirit is so powerful that when we gather after a week of being scattering in our various walks of life - we have "loved the daylights" out of our city in practical ways. Such energized people gathered together will bring with them God's Spirit in an amazing way. Anyone present will indeed change... whether it is on week on or week two or week three. "We all gonna change - to be like Jesus!"
It will be better than a U2 concert - no tickets necessary.
Love you jillian.
Thank you for showing Bono's video citing the Bible at the celebration. It's an affirmation that Jesus followers are not ignorant, care about the poor and really do something wherever they are, including Bono with his ONE movement, and his fight over extreme poverty. He has a dark side just like any of us, but by worshiping Jesus and receiving Jesus as a savior, the word Saint is granted to us. Glory to Jesus!
ReplyDeletestelfox-
ReplyDeleteyour response ignores what i have written, in particular the quotes of the gentleman we are discussing, as well as the subsequent admissions of grace written by myself. this forum is certainly appropriate to bring counterpoints, and i am smitten that you would assume otherwise. especially having written extensively in such a manner. i am actually overwhelmed in general that you assume many things---
my father, as well as myself was/are artists. he actually had the privilege of playing with dylan and many others in the spotlight. i am awre of their commentary and beliefs... heck, dave himself actually played drums at some point with my pop, and i would never categorize either of them. if there is anything i do not do, it is "box someone in" whereas i have been subject to such myself. nor am i young-i seen multitudes of ACTS miracles through prayer, the presence of God has aged me rapidly---
i suggest you reread my posts, and the content therein thoroughly. i merely offered an alternate perspective, while you seem to dismiss me, and then tell me you love me. one of these things is not like the other.
also, your implication that i need to listen to Jesus more is absurd, as is the statement that others who are apparently vulnerable may be 'influenced' in such a forum...yeah, they might be. are you perchance implying the Body has no discernment? cannot decide for themselves? i'm fairly certain that as the Living Bride of Christ, we are all capable of reading and deciding what is truth. or are you questioning our simple ability to choose as even we accepted the Truth of Christ Himself? are we little children?
ReplyDeletesee...it totally sucks when someone misses the point and terrorizes your words, and has the audacity to refer to it as "love", doesn't it?